If the ability to come up with snappy answers and outwit your opponent ewusls intelligence, then Boris Johnson woulf have been the modt intelligent PM we ever hsd, on fact hr ess thr biggest idiot evet to holf thr job.
its so hard for me to comprehend a grown man can believe in a fairytale like the bible you may as well believe in humpty dumpty so stupid and ignorant its mind boggling
most religious people were indoctrinated by their parents. This is why it it is so easy to guess a persons religion based only on where in the world they were born. People are most often indoctrinated into whichever religion happens to be most common in their area.
It's a good argument buts it's being said on a different axis to the argument at hand. He should have addressed the other guys actual questions and points.
Ah, yes, the rhetorician at his best with his usual tactics sidestepping the actual issue. We can agree, for the sake of argument, that none of these sacred texts of religion is trustworthy because they are all the work of fallible humans. That's not the point of contention that was being addressed, though. The question being raised is how can we justify trust in any scholarly textbook, when they are also the works of fallible humans? How can we justify the principles of logic and reason, when they are also founded on the perceptions of fallible humans? What makes any of these epestimic foundations objectively superior? What makes one person's logical axioms, maxims, presuppositions, (which are accepted sans evidence) or whatever one prefers to call them objectively better than those of the next person? What constitutes "sufficient' evidence? What metric can we use for that? Who makes that determination? Under what authority? These are the real questions that Hitchens masterfully sidesteps.
I think hitchens whole point never was to dismiss religious texts wholly just bcz they are written by men but that they are going to be held to same standards as other man made texts have been held to. With your other point of him not addressing how can we justify principle of logic i think you are right. In my opinion we justify these principles on their continued streak of producing results which conform to objective reality better. And yes reason is and empirical data is our limit but better than any other means available.
The problem wasn't that Christopher Hitchens' mindset was way ahead of his time, the problem is always most people are stupid and always way behind in that same time.
If you don’t believe the Bible when it says, “In the beginning, God created…” then what do you believe to be the initial cause of the universe? The Big Bang Theory breaks all kinds of scientific laws. For instance, the Law of Cause and Effect says, “Cause is the reason or action that produces results. Effect is the result of the cause. You can't have one without the other.” This is a huge problem for the Big Bang which according to Big Bang Theorists, starts with a singularity. The singularity, so-called, because it was the ONLY thing that existed 13.7 billion years ago was the EFFECT, but the problem is, according to Big Bang theology, NOTHING existed before the singularity, therefore NO CAUSE. The First Law of Thermodynamics says energy and matter cannot be created or destroyed, they can only change form. This is another problem for Big Bang Theology that says, “nothing” created the singularity that contained all of the energy and matter and even ALL space and time of the entire universe in itself. Then when we look at Darwinian Evolution we have even more problems with science. The Second Law of Thermodynamics says, “Everything is going from complex to simple, or entropy.” BUT, Evolution is the exact opposite, starting with one simple cell as the ONLY life on planet Earth progressing to all of the life we have today, from bacteria to plants and trees, insects, mammals and eventually humankind. Finally, again according to Evolution, life somehow came from non-living matter, but the Law of Biogenesis says, “Life only comes from other life.” So, the atheist will mock the Christian for believing God created the universe, but they believe NOTHING caused the universe to come into existence. God is the UNCAUSED, CAUSE. Admittedly it takes some faith to believe an Eternal, All-powerful God creating everything, BUT it takes way more faith to believe that nothing broke many of the laws of science to create the universe including life.
I love how they always revert to the bible or the unknown an claim it is a divine being running every aspect of our lives. But yey they claim god gave us free will. They have no real argument other then when they can't explain somethign it has to be god ! Know, if your religion make you a better person, than that is a good thing. I dont beleive on god at all, yet I am a a good father , husband, freind and treat other very well. I have a moral compass with dispite the fact that I am none believer and I hope that we all try to treat other wtih a minimal level of respect and courtesy
The reason to believe in science instead of religion is because science works. It's that simple. I can make predictions based on science that reliably come true and are useful. If I couldn't do that but I kept asserting I was right, *that* would be faith. But when I use reason and logic to figure out how to build that phone you're looking at right now, that's not faith.
Science is rigor - understanding the world by exacting measurement. Logic is a sub-set if science that describes relationships which always replicate. Literally nothing can be more certain. The problem with holy texts, on the other hand, doesn't lie in how they're interpreted, but in that they must be. And they flatly contradict that of which we can be most certain.
Douglas Wilson is a moron. This fool trying to defend the delusion of Christianity actually said that since logic is man made there is no reason to follow it! What a twisted and deranged and utterly pathetic way to try to challenge the intellectual superiority of both Hitchens and his argument. The emotional emptiness to cling to the Bible at all costs is the saddest waste of human life man has created for himself.
I am a Christain, and I agree with Hitch. Religion is your moral compas. Whether you argue policy, politics. philosophy, and even religion; you argue the facts and base your argument on reason. I personally do not argue religion. I believe religion can't be argued. Religion is based on faith, not reason. You 'feel' it, or you don't.
I would tell Hitchens to go home , he has no point to make except his personal opinion about not believeing there’s a GOD . He cannot prove there is not a GOD , I can prove that the Bible is an amazing Book of accurate history and accurate prophecy , with more prophect to come.
there is no evidence to prove, or even suggest, that any God exists. Atheists do not need to disprove the existence of something which has never even been proved.
"If you believe it, its true" ~ Tom Cruise And for those small minds, this applies to non-believers to, Both sides can be write and NO ONE has the right to tell the other side their wrong.
As a person who does believe in God, I would like to state, that Hitchens does show more competence in understanding what faith is, than those who blindly follow it.
As an Englishman I have met a few Hitch types and I know their strengths and their weaknesses. One weakness is his derision for people like me solely on the basis that am from Yorkshire. He admits this stereotyping and feels a bit bad about it. So he is human with weaknesses but also great strengths. Never forget that and never regard him as infallible or you will be as bad as the religo-cultists. On the other hand, if you want to worship me then feel free.. ps I know he is dead but he deserves the present tense...
Its just a big book... written originally by men...not women. You would think a God that thought all his children were equal..."HE" would include women in writing the thing. NO...because chauvinistic old farts in the ancient times wrote the book with their biases...their desires...their expectations. It's an absolute falasy...yet people hang on to the thing because they once said they believed in the thing. Now it's part of their identity...and damned if anyone will reject their own identity. Its like a fish hook, once the faith and the Bible have been consumed...you can't pull it out without pain. Mental "I made a mistake, I was wrong" pain. Hence why so many are die hard religious people. Its like the mafia, you can join but you can't leave. No matter how logical the argument from people like myself... the faith is stuck in deep. They don't want to admit they might be wrong, they don't want the pain... its easier to just flip open the book ...and just like Biden...read the teleprompter to regurgitate what the Bible instructs of them. It's so Sad.
The blindness and gullibility of religion has no grip on reality; forsaking reality being the initiation to the robes. From there, no vile and depraved act shall burden their conciousness. The filthy non believers are beneith them, and shall be reeducated. God is dead, and religion has killed him. Your churches and mosques are his tomb. His sepulcher and grave. Your wish for divinity was self induldgence, and empty pride. Glorifying yourself at the cost of others. This arrogance was the murder weapon. You are coated in his divine blood and entrails. Abandon your destructive ways, embrace doubt.
I’ll tell you how the Real Catholic Church claims to know the Truths revealed by God, because It’s God’s Church Protected by God. Faith and Morals can Not change, timeless meaning True in all Centuries, Infallible and Indefectible. And the other man showed Hitchens illogic so how is this, oh I forgot the captions are lies too.
If that was MMA or boxing, even if I wasnot on his corner, i'd throw in the towel and yell AND STIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLL! THE CHAMPION OF THE WORLD! Christopher ...HITCHENS!!!!
Logic certainly is man made, we created the meaning of implication, equivalence etc. The reason we can appeal to logic is because how well it works as a method, it rarely fails and when it does it's usually a typo or something wrong with the question itself. The same doesn't apply for faith though since it's not a consistent or reliable method whatsoever, we have done countless experiments regarding how faith affects the outcome of a future event, and as expected it doesn't work, those few times it does work though it can be explained by coincidence.
You're talking about people who think you can't have morals without religion. So basically if their book DIDN'T say murder was bad, they'd have no problem committing it!
as Dawkins said "If you are a religious apologist and you are invited to debate with Christopher Hitchens... Decline". you couldn't push your half-baked religious garbage on a man like Hitchens and not expect it to get pushed back in your face harder.
That's the wrong answer to the statement that "I wrote a logic text book. Does that make logic man made". He should have said the book is man made, not that logic is. in my humble opinion
"Faith is the concious suspension of rational thought". Christofer can back his statements and assertions with scientific facts. The guy on the right (proves Kruger Dunning) only has his uselesss book to refer too. A book which encourages slavery, genocide, sexual mutilation of children, supression of women. Put the bible book in the dustbin together with other morally corrupt documents.
@@SNORKYMEDIA Theism is an act of faith. You say the universe came into being as a natural random act. Prove it. Oh, you can't, but you have faith that it's true.
Hundred times repeated stupidity stays stupidity. Hundred Hitchens stay hundred Hitchens
If the ability to come up with snappy answers and outwit your opponent ewusls intelligence, then Boris Johnson woulf have been the modt intelligent PM we ever hsd, on fact hr ess thr biggest idiot evet to holf thr job.
its so hard for me to comprehend a grown man can believe in a fairytale like the bible you may as well believe in humpty dumpty so stupid and ignorant its mind boggling
most religious people were indoctrinated by their parents. This is why it it is so easy to guess a persons religion based only on where in the world they were born. People are most often indoctrinated into whichever religion happens to be most common in their area.
Religious indoctrination is, I believe, a form of brainwashing.
Great man
This is such twisted logic that it makes me sick to my stomach.
It's a good argument buts it's being said on a different axis to the argument at hand. He should have addressed the other guys actual questions and points.
I wrote a logic textbook, does that make logic manmade? Logic is manmade. Aw shit.
Ah, yes, the rhetorician at his best with his usual tactics sidestepping the actual issue. We can agree, for the sake of argument, that none of these sacred texts of religion is trustworthy because they are all the work of fallible humans. That's not the point of contention that was being addressed, though. The question being raised is how can we justify trust in any scholarly textbook, when they are also the works of fallible humans? How can we justify the principles of logic and reason, when they are also founded on the perceptions of fallible humans? What makes any of these epestimic foundations objectively superior? What makes one person's logical axioms, maxims, presuppositions, (which are accepted sans evidence) or whatever one prefers to call them objectively better than those of the next person? What constitutes "sufficient' evidence? What metric can we use for that? Who makes that determination? Under what authority? These are the real questions that Hitchens masterfully sidesteps.
I think hitchens whole point never was to dismiss religious texts wholly just bcz they are written by men but that they are going to be held to same standards as other man made texts have been held to. With your other point of him not addressing how can we justify principle of logic i think you are right. In my opinion we justify these principles on their continued streak of producing results which conform to objective reality better. And yes reason is and empirical data is our limit but better than any other means available.
The man could talk his way out of anything and make it sound so convincing.
trying to debate with a brick. hats off to you again Christopher, I wouldn't have the patience you never cease with.
I know what God wants and intends, but I’m not telling you cos I’m a prick!
The world became a much dumber place on December the 15th 2011.
0:27 sorry, your faith isn't base on reason or on facts. It's on inheritance of hearsay, and unverifiable acts or "miracles"!
whos the fat toad guy without a neck?
"Faith in reasoning" .... What an amazingly stupid thing to say.
So sad that some people give more value to superstition over evidence and logic.
You can't argue will logic and evidence but you can argue with faith and cults.
👍
The problem wasn't that Christopher Hitchens' mindset was way ahead of his time, the problem is always most people are stupid and always way behind in that same time.
Is that Matt Dillahunty opposing Hitch?!! I know he was a pastor before becoming an atheist. WOW!
If you don’t believe the Bible when it says, “In the beginning, God created…” then what do you believe to be the initial cause of the universe? The Big Bang Theory breaks all kinds of scientific laws. For instance, the Law of Cause and Effect says, “Cause is the reason or action that produces results. Effect is the result of the cause. You can't have one without the other.” This is a huge problem for the Big Bang which according to Big Bang Theorists, starts with a singularity. The singularity, so-called, because it was the ONLY thing that existed 13.7 billion years ago was the EFFECT, but the problem is, according to Big Bang theology, NOTHING existed before the singularity, therefore NO CAUSE. The First Law of Thermodynamics says energy and matter cannot be created or destroyed, they can only change form. This is another problem for Big Bang Theology that says, “nothing” created the singularity that contained all of the energy and matter and even ALL space and time of the entire universe in itself. Then when we look at Darwinian Evolution we have even more problems with science. The Second Law of Thermodynamics says, “Everything is going from complex to simple, or entropy.” BUT, Evolution is the exact opposite, starting with one simple cell as the ONLY life on planet Earth progressing to all of the life we have today, from bacteria to plants and trees, insects, mammals and eventually humankind. Finally, again according to Evolution, life somehow came from non-living matter, but the Law of Biogenesis says, “Life only comes from other life.” So, the atheist will mock the Christian for believing God created the universe, but they believe NOTHING caused the universe to come into existence. God is the UNCAUSED, CAUSE. Admittedly it takes some faith to believe an Eternal, All-powerful God creating everything, BUT it takes way more faith to believe that nothing broke many of the laws of science to create the universe including life.
I refuse to believe that your holy book is the only correct holy book 👍
the Bible is equally fictional as any other supposedly ''Holy'' book. It belongs in the fiction section of any library.
I love how they always revert to the bible or the unknown an claim it is a divine being running every aspect of our lives. But yey they claim god gave us free will. They have no real argument other then when they can't explain somethign it has to be god ! Know, if your religion make you a better person, than that is a good thing. I dont beleive on god at all, yet I am a a good father , husband, freind and treat other very well. I have a moral compass with dispite the fact that I am none believer and I hope that we all try to treat other wtih a minimal level of respect and courtesy
The reason to believe in science instead of religion is because science works. It's that simple. I can make predictions based on science that reliably come true and are useful. If I couldn't do that but I kept asserting I was right, *that* would be faith. But when I use reason and logic to figure out how to build that phone you're looking at right now, that's not faith.
Science is rigor - understanding the world by exacting measurement. Logic is a sub-set if science that describes relationships which always replicate. Literally nothing can be more certain. The problem with holy texts, on the other hand, doesn't lie in how they're interpreted, but in that they must be. And they flatly contradict that of which we can be most certain.
I could not agree more.
hitch is dead and been slapped by GOD in nonheaven
Did the Magical Sky-Daddy punish Hitchens for daring to doubt that you are privileged to "know" what happens after death!?
any evidence?? like i'm genuinely asking
Gods are fictional. End of argument.
unicorns, leprechauns, fairies, Gods, all man-made.
people are creative, and have come up with many, many, different fictional beings. And God is just one of them.
Douglas Wilson is a moron. This fool trying to defend the delusion of Christianity actually said that since logic is man made there is no reason to follow it! What a twisted and deranged and utterly pathetic way to try to challenge the intellectual superiority of both Hitchens and his argument. The emotional emptiness to cling to the Bible at all costs is the saddest waste of human life man has created for himself.
Christopher Hitchens. Legend.
I am a Christain, and I agree with Hitch. Religion is your moral compas. Whether you argue policy, politics. philosophy, and even religion; you argue the facts and base your argument on reason. I personally do not argue religion. I believe religion can't be argued. Religion is based on faith, not reason. You 'feel' it, or you don't.
unfortunately, hitch had too much intelligence, there wasn't enough room left for wisdom. 😉
Is logic man made. Yes. This fucking fool. God is man made too bahahaha
Why is he wearing a poppy?
I doubt Hicthens or many of you even know what the Bible is about.
I would tell Hitchens to go home , he has no point to make except his personal opinion about not believeing there’s a GOD . He cannot prove there is not a GOD , I can prove that the Bible is an amazing Book of accurate history and accurate prophecy , with more prophect to come.
there is no evidence to prove, or even suggest, that any God exists. Atheists do not need to disprove the existence of something which has never even been proved.
Hitchens would have loved Trump
Hitchens was on record disdaining Trump.
@@greyeyed123 20 yrs ago yes but Hitch hated the the anti American and the Islamic invasion of Europe
"If you believe it, its true" ~ Tom Cruise And for those small minds, this applies to non-believers to, Both sides can be write and NO ONE has the right to tell the other side their wrong.
''write'' and ''right'' mean two completely different things...
I like to watch Hitch at least once a week, just to remind myself that I'm am idiot.
As a person who does believe in God, I would like to state, that Hitchens does show more competence in understanding what faith is, than those who blindly follow it.
your logic makes no sense. All religious belief is blind faith. There is zero evidence to prove that any God exists; and this includes your God.
As an Englishman I have met a few Hitch types and I know their strengths and their weaknesses. One weakness is his derision for people like me solely on the basis that am from Yorkshire. He admits this stereotyping and feels a bit bad about it. So he is human with weaknesses but also great strengths. Never forget that and never regard him as infallible or you will be as bad as the religo-cultists. On the other hand, if you want to worship me then feel free.. ps I know he is dead but he deserves the present tense...
Its just a big book... written originally by men...not women. You would think a God that thought all his children were equal..."HE" would include women in writing the thing. NO...because chauvinistic old farts in the ancient times wrote the book with their biases...their desires...their expectations. It's an absolute falasy...yet people hang on to the thing because they once said they believed in the thing. Now it's part of their identity...and damned if anyone will reject their own identity. Its like a fish hook, once the faith and the Bible have been consumed...you can't pull it out without pain. Mental "I made a mistake, I was wrong" pain. Hence why so many are die hard religious people. Its like the mafia, you can join but you can't leave. No matter how logical the argument from people like myself... the faith is stuck in deep. They don't want to admit they might be wrong, they don't want the pain... its easier to just flip open the book ...and just like Biden...read the teleprompter to regurgitate what the Bible instructs of them. It's so Sad.
The blindness and gullibility of religion has no grip on reality; forsaking reality being the initiation to the robes. From there, no vile and depraved act shall burden their conciousness. The filthy non believers are beneith them, and shall be reeducated. God is dead, and religion has killed him. Your churches and mosques are his tomb. His sepulcher and grave. Your wish for divinity was self induldgence, and empty pride. Glorifying yourself at the cost of others. This arrogance was the murder weapon. You are coated in his divine blood and entrails. Abandon your destructive ways, embrace doubt.
The bearded man was crucified by manmade logic.....
I’ll tell you how the Real Catholic Church claims to know the Truths revealed by God, because It’s God’s Church Protected by God. Faith and Morals can Not change, timeless meaning True in all Centuries, Infallible and Indefectible. And the other man showed Hitchens illogic so how is this, oh I forgot the captions are lies too.
If that was MMA or boxing, even if I wasnot on his corner, i'd throw in the towel and yell AND STIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLL! THE CHAMPION OF THE WORLD! Christopher ...HITCHENS!!!!
Thank God I’m not an Atheist. 🙏🏽
Thank who?
Logic certainly is man made, we created the meaning of implication, equivalence etc. The reason we can appeal to logic is because how well it works as a method, it rarely fails and when it does it's usually a typo or something wrong with the question itself. The same doesn't apply for faith though since it's not a consistent or reliable method whatsoever, we have done countless experiments regarding how faith affects the outcome of a future event, and as expected it doesn't work, those few times it does work though it can be explained by coincidence.
You're talking about people who think you can't have morals without religion. So basically if their book DIDN'T say murder was bad, they'd have no problem committing it!
as Dawkins said "If you are a religious apologist and you are invited to debate with Christopher Hitchens... Decline". you couldn't push your half-baked religious garbage on a man like Hitchens and not expect it to get pushed back in your face harder.
That's the wrong answer to the statement that "I wrote a logic text book. Does that make logic man made". He should have said the book is man made, not that logic is. in my humble opinion
"Faith is the concious suspension of rational thought". Christofer can back his statements and assertions with scientific facts. The guy on the right (proves Kruger Dunning) only has his uselesss book to refer too. A book which encourages slavery, genocide, sexual mutilation of children, supression of women. Put the bible book in the dustbin together with other morally corrupt documents.
The fashionable Hitchens fails to see atheism for what it is- a faith, just like his opponents.
athiesm is the answer to one question - Theists claim that god exists Athiests say show me proof or I dont beleive you - no faith required for that.
@@SNORKYMEDIA Theism is an act of faith. You say the universe came into being as a natural random act. Prove it. Oh, you can't, but you have faith that it's true.